Comments on: A Tale Of Two Markets http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/03/a-tale-of-two-markets/ Wed, 02 Mar 2011 15:16:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Laer http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/03/a-tale-of-two-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-1876 Laer Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:27:38 +0000 http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6146#comment-1876 <p>Both of the situations you address are in accord with my "ideological schema."  In other words, I agree with you, DG.  I do talk about the drop-off cases, but not on my blog due to a client conflict.  Let me just say that much is being done in the health care community to address this problem, and it should be relatively easy to solve because the people are poor and there's little controversy about treating the truly poor and needed.  Expanding existing systems to treat people farther and farther above the poverty line before the problems with the poor are addressed will not help solve the problem.</p> Both of the situations you address are in accord with my “ideological schema.”  In other words, I agree with you, DG.  I do talk about the drop-off cases, but not on my blog due to a client conflict.  Let me just say that much is being done in the health care community to address this problem, and it should be relatively easy to solve because the people are poor and there’s little controversy about treating the truly poor and needed.  Expanding existing systems to treat people farther and farther above the poverty line before the problems with the poor are addressed will not help solve the problem.

]]> By: dg http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/03/a-tale-of-two-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-1874 dg Mon, 08 Dec 2008 18:24:50 +0000 http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6146#comment-1874 There are impoverished folks and homeless people here in Los Angeles that are taken by taxi out of emergency rooms and dumped back on the streets without having received adequate care.  The conservatives in this country do not talk about these cases, but the minute someone receives adequate but not cutting-edge, outrageously expensive treatment, then the entire healthcare system is called into question.  This does not seem balanced to me, nor is it a canard.  And life is definitely commoditized by the United, Tenet and other hospital operators that must manage down the charity cases to hit their EBITDA margin targets, which is why they send for those cabs in the first place.  My point is that those who claim that life should not be commoditized should be concerned regardless of whether the accountant-minded bean-counter is employed by Tenet Healthcare or by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.  Both are real problems that should be addressed, not just the one that fits your ideological schema.  And of the two, the denial of healthcare entirely to the poor is a bigger tragedy than the denial of the most expensive care to a person who is nonetheless receiving some form of it, in my opinion. There are impoverished folks and homeless people here in Los Angeles that are taken by taxi out of emergency rooms and dumped back on the streets without having received adequate care.  The conservatives in this country do not talk about these cases, but the minute someone receives adequate but not cutting-edge, outrageously expensive treatment, then the entire healthcare system is called into question.  This does not seem balanced to me, nor is it a canard.  And life is definitely commoditized by the United, Tenet and other hospital operators that must manage down the charity cases to hit their EBITDA margin targets, which is why they send for those cabs in the first place.  My point is that those who claim that life should not be commoditized should be concerned regardless of whether the accountant-minded bean-counter is employed by Tenet Healthcare or by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.  Both are real problems that should be addressed, not just the one that fits your ideological schema.  And of the two, the denial of healthcare entirely to the poor is a bigger tragedy than the denial of the most expensive care to a person who is nonetheless receiving some form of it, in my opinion.

]]> By: Laer http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/03/a-tale-of-two-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-1868 Laer Sun, 07 Dec 2008 19:26:07 +0000 http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6146#comment-1868 <p>Do you mind if I point out some of the moral, financial and legal issues that will arise with the embrace of nationalized health care, or do you want to giddily run into its open arms, like Pollyanna embracing Dr. Mann? I think that in the process, I am building evidence in support of exactly what you ask for:  concern that human life cannot be commoditized.</p> <p>Your poor person is a canard.  We have Medicare, Social Security SDI and state programs like Medi-Cal to care for the indigent and poor.  I don't protest that at all; care for those who can't care for themselves is a legitimate role for government.  Caring for those who can is not.</p> <p> </p> Do you mind if I point out some of the moral, financial and legal issues that will arise with the embrace of nationalized health care, or do you want to giddily run into its open arms, like Pollyanna embracing Dr. Mann? I think that in the process, I am building evidence in support of exactly what you ask for:  concern that human life cannot be commoditized.

Your poor person is a canard.  We have Medicare, Social Security SDI and state programs like Medi-Cal to care for the indigent and poor.  I don’t protest that at all; care for those who can’t care for themselves is a legitimate role for government.  Caring for those who can is not.

 

]]> By: dg http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/03/a-tale-of-two-markets/comment-page-1/#comment-1865 dg Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:43:39 +0000 http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6146#comment-1865 So the British guy's life is worth saving, but the lives of people who cannot afford health care in America are not?  Why is it that when the government precludes life-saving medicines that is tragic, but when the free market does it, it is no longer tragic?  How does showing the tragedy of a flawed British policy somehow connect logically to the tragedy of the flawed US policy.  How about just giving equal time to both tragedies and agreeing that human life (according to your view) cannot be commoditized regardless of whether it is being done by a government actuary in the UK or the free market in the US?  That would show a more fair and balanced application of your morality concerning inherent human worth... So the British guy’s life is worth saving, but the lives of people who cannot afford health care in America are not?  Why is it that when the government precludes life-saving medicines that is tragic, but when the free market does it, it is no longer tragic?  How does showing the tragedy of a flawed British policy somehow connect logically to the tragedy of the flawed US policy.  How about just giving equal time to both tragedies and agreeing that human life (according to your view) cannot be commoditized regardless of whether it is being done by a government actuary in the UK or the free market in the US?  That would show a more fair and balanced application of your morality concerning inherent human worth…

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