<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Lies They Teach &#8211; #16 And #17</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 15:16:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cheat Seeking Missiles &#187; The Lies They Teach - #19</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1848</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheat Seeking Missiles &#187; The Lies They Teach - #19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1848</guid>
		<description>[...] The Lies They Teach: #16 and #17 The Lies They Teach: #13 - #15 The Lies They Teach #11 And #12 The Lies They Teach: #9 And #10 The Lies They Teach - #8 The Lies They Teach: #6 And #7 The Lies They Teach: #4 And #5 The Lies They Teach: #1 - #3   Share this Logic Bomb with others: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Lies They Teach: #16 and #17 The Lies They Teach: #13 &#8211; #15 The Lies They Teach #11 And #12 The Lies They Teach: #9 And #10 The Lies They Teach &#8211; #8 The Lies They Teach: #6 And #7 The Lies They Teach: #4 And #5 The Lies They Teach: #1 &#8211; #3   Share this Logic Bomb with others: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dg</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1828</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1828</guid>
		<description>Laer, to be clear, a bigot is someone who is intolerant of differing views.  I am open to them and have called for citation of intelligent conservatives to elicit such views.  I am, however, intolerant of poorly argued views that do not comport with the facts or sound logic.  This is not bigotry, but intelligence...and a personality that does not suffer fools gladly.  Unfortunately, Schweikart&#039;s analysis, and your posts summarizing that analysis, looks rather foolish in many cases, not due to the views cited but the analysis used to defend those views.  Get it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laer, to be clear, a bigot is someone who is intolerant of differing views.  I am open to them and have called for citation of intelligent conservatives to elicit such views.  I am, however, intolerant of poorly argued views that do not comport with the facts or sound logic.  This is not bigotry, but intelligence&#8230;and a personality that does not suffer fools gladly.  Unfortunately, Schweikart&#8217;s analysis, and your posts summarizing that analysis, looks rather foolish in many cases, not due to the views cited but the analysis used to defend those views.  Get it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laer</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1826</link>
		<dc:creator>Laer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1826</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;Horrific&quot; is relative and subjective.  You shouldn&#039;t judge a 1920s trial by 2008 standards.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for your bigotry or lack thereof, here&#039;s what you said:  &quot;The Economist, a fairly conservative English magazine, referred to the GOP as the “stupid party” just last week.  Posts like this one do little to shed that unfortunate image…&quot;  Since you took it from &quot;party&quot; to &quot;my post,&quot; I somehow got the sense you thought I was stupid for holding Republican views.  Get it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Horrific&#8221; is relative and subjective.  You shouldn&#8217;t judge a 1920s trial by 2008 standards.</p>
<p>As for your bigotry or lack thereof, here&#8217;s what you said:  &#8220;The Economist, a fairly conservative English magazine, referred to the GOP as the “stupid party” just last week.  Posts like this one do little to shed that unfortunate image…&#8221;  Since you took it from &#8220;party&#8221; to &#8220;my post,&#8221; I somehow got the sense you thought I was stupid for holding Republican views.  Get it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dg</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1823</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1823</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t put words in my mouth.  As I said, please give me the smart conservatives view of these issues rather than Schweikart, who strikes me as a rather shallow scholar.  The Wikipedia piece is not meant to be real scholarship, but it is good enough to cast doubt on Schweikart&#039;s claims (at least, as you&#039;ve distilled them).  On the eye witnesses, one of the key controversies was the fact that the prosecution coerced those witnesses and all of them showed inconsistencies in their testimony.  The key point, which you and Schweikart miss, is not the guilt or innocence of these men, but the horrific conditions under which the trial proceeded.  This is the reason why we remember this case as being more than the mere prosecution of a couple of bankrobbers.  Finally, my &quot;bigotry&quot; cannot be showing if I am not a bigot.  Be careful what you accuse people of when you don&#039;t know them.  You can question my facts and logic, but not my character, ethics or integrity.  You come close to the line...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t put words in my mouth.  As I said, please give me the smart conservatives view of these issues rather than Schweikart, who strikes me as a rather shallow scholar.  The Wikipedia piece is not meant to be real scholarship, but it is good enough to cast doubt on Schweikart&#8217;s claims (at least, as you&#8217;ve distilled them).  On the eye witnesses, one of the key controversies was the fact that the prosecution coerced those witnesses and all of them showed inconsistencies in their testimony.  The key point, which you and Schweikart miss, is not the guilt or innocence of these men, but the horrific conditions under which the trial proceeded.  This is the reason why we remember this case as being more than the mere prosecution of a couple of bankrobbers.  Finally, my &#8220;bigotry&#8221; cannot be showing if I am not a bigot.  Be careful what you accuse people of when you don&#8217;t know them.  You can question my facts and logic, but not my character, ethics or integrity.  You come close to the line&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laer</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1822</link>
		<dc:creator>Laer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1822</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wikipedia is widely regarded as a left-leaning compilation of data, dg.  This is evident in the &quot;second trial&quot; and &quot;later investigations&quot; sections, which I skimmed.  The first brings up one prosecution witness whose testimony was challenged, but doesn&#039;t mention any of the other eight eye witnesses.  The second section brings up the chain of evidence issues (the alleged but unproven switching out of the barrel of Sacco&#039;s gun) that are used to call into question the later forensics tests, but doesn&#039;t mention that blame for the reputed switch has been laid at the feet of the defense attorneys.  A damaged source indeed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And you&#039;re smart enough, dg, to not call this stupid.  The premise of Schweikart&#039;s book is that leftist historians are pursuing revisionist history; it is not his purpose to re-present that revisionism, but only to disprove it.  He does present the revision position briefly at the start of each chapter and I don&#039;t generally pick up these portions of the book in my reviews.  That said, given the shameful management of the 2008 campaign, I can&#039;t disagree with the Economist&#039;s statement about the Republican PARTY - but be careful if you extrapolate that to all Republicans, dg, or your bigotry will be showing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wikipedia is widely regarded as a left-leaning compilation of data, dg.  This is evident in the &#8220;second trial&#8221; and &#8220;later investigations&#8221; sections, which I skimmed.  The first brings up one prosecution witness whose testimony was challenged, but doesn&#8217;t mention any of the other eight eye witnesses.  The second section brings up the chain of evidence issues (the alleged but unproven switching out of the barrel of Sacco&#8217;s gun) that are used to call into question the later forensics tests, but doesn&#8217;t mention that blame for the reputed switch has been laid at the feet of the defense attorneys.  A damaged source indeed.</p>
<p>And you&#8217;re smart enough, dg, to not call this stupid.  The premise of Schweikart&#8217;s book is that leftist historians are pursuing revisionist history; it is not his purpose to re-present that revisionism, but only to disprove it.  He does present the revision position briefly at the start of each chapter and I don&#8217;t generally pick up these portions of the book in my reviews.  That said, given the shameful management of the 2008 campaign, I can&#8217;t disagree with the Economist&#8217;s statement about the Republican PARTY &#8211; but be careful if you extrapolate that to all Republicans, dg, or your bigotry will be showing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dg</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1819</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1819</guid>
		<description>The &quot;important&quot; book by Schweikart has a very skewed history of Sacco and Vanzetti.  While not perfect, even the Wikipedia entry does a better job of summarizing the facts that prove and cast doubt on the innocence or guilt of the two men (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_%26_Vanzetti&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_%26_Vanzetti&lt;/a&gt;).  More importantly, while you and the author criticize Dukakis for claiming their innocence, the former Governor of Massachussetts actually was equivocal on this point and instead publicly stated regret for the myriad problems and injustices that occurred during the trials and prosecution of these men.  The exact quote is also found on the Wikipedia entry.  The credibility of &quot;important&quot; conservative books is greatly undermined when falsehoods and stilted accounts are presented in lieu of actual scholarship.  This treatment of S&amp;V, like nearly all of the entries you&#039;ve summarized here (and thank you, Francis, for highlighting the similar weaknesses on the Prohibition era), are deeply troubling because they present only one side of the facts in an attempt to make an ideological point rather than attempting to achieve an historically or legally or politically accurate treatment of an important issue or event.  Surely, there are better conservative thinkers out there to learn from than Schweikart.  The Economist, a fairly conservative English magazine, referred to the GOP as the &quot;stupid party&quot; just last week.  Posts like this one do little to shed that unfortunate image...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;important&#8221; book by Schweikart has a very skewed history of Sacco and Vanzetti.  While not perfect, even the Wikipedia entry does a better job of summarizing the facts that prove and cast doubt on the innocence or guilt of the two men (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_%26_Vanzetti" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacco_%26_Vanzetti</a>).  More importantly, while you and the author criticize Dukakis for claiming their innocence, the former Governor of Massachussetts actually was equivocal on this point and instead publicly stated regret for the myriad problems and injustices that occurred during the trials and prosecution of these men.  The exact quote is also found on the Wikipedia entry.  The credibility of &#8220;important&#8221; conservative books is greatly undermined when falsehoods and stilted accounts are presented in lieu of actual scholarship.  This treatment of S&amp;V, like nearly all of the entries you&#8217;ve summarized here (and thank you, Francis, for highlighting the similar weaknesses on the Prohibition era), are deeply troubling because they present only one side of the facts in an attempt to make an ideological point rather than attempting to achieve an historically or legally or politically accurate treatment of an important issue or event.  Surely, there are better conservative thinkers out there to learn from than Schweikart.  The Economist, a fairly conservative English magazine, referred to the GOP as the &#8220;stupid party&#8221; just last week.  Posts like this one do little to shed that unfortunate image&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laer</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1809</link>
		<dc:creator>Laer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1809</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Most of your issues are addressed by Schweikart, Francis.  I&#039;ll summarize quickly here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Criminologists Edwin Sutherland and C.H. Gehlke found &quot;no evidence here of a &#039;crime wave,&#039; but only of a slowly rising level,&quot; - and that was in urban areas only, and NOT adjusted for population increases.  The homicide rate rose steadily from 1910, before Prohibition, plateaued in the late 20s and did not begin dropping until 1936, three years after Prohibition ended.  Still, by definition crime had to increase because a whole new type of crime - liquor-related - was on the books.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for consumption, Schweikart shows that slightly less alcohol was consumed per capita in America at the end of Prohibition than before - hardly a sterling endorsement, but a rebuttal of sorts to your point, although I agree that thousands of people started drinking because of the added thrill of Prohibition.  It&#039;s just that a few thousand more apparently quit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Prohibition was repealed primarily because the media railed against it and because the liquor industry lobbied heavily for its repeal.  Technically speaking, the liquor industry was a criminal element because of Prohibition, but it was they, not the &quot;gangland warlords,&quot; that primarily funded the Association Against the Prohibition Amendment, which led the battle for repeal.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only relationship between liquor and abortion that I made was stating that professors make an association between Prohibition and efforts to end &quot;choice.&quot;  Otherwise, I couldn&#039;t agree more with that portion of your comment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I make this defense as no defender of Prohibition; I&#039;m not.  I&#039;m just summarizing Schweikart&#039;s very interesting and important book.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of your issues are addressed by Schweikart, Francis.  I&#8217;ll summarize quickly here.</p>
<p>Criminologists Edwin Sutherland and C.H. Gehlke found &#8220;no evidence here of a &#8216;crime wave,&#8217; but only of a slowly rising level,&#8221; &#8211; and that was in urban areas only, and NOT adjusted for population increases.  The homicide rate rose steadily from 1910, before Prohibition, plateaued in the late 20s and did not begin dropping until 1936, three years after Prohibition ended.  Still, by definition crime had to increase because a whole new type of crime &#8211; liquor-related &#8211; was on the books.</p>
<p>As for consumption, Schweikart shows that slightly less alcohol was consumed per capita in America at the end of Prohibition than before &#8211; hardly a sterling endorsement, but a rebuttal of sorts to your point, although I agree that thousands of people started drinking because of the added thrill of Prohibition.  It&#8217;s just that a few thousand more apparently quit.</p>
<p>Prohibition was repealed primarily because the media railed against it and because the liquor industry lobbied heavily for its repeal.  Technically speaking, the liquor industry was a criminal element because of Prohibition, but it was they, not the &#8220;gangland warlords,&#8221; that primarily funded the Association Against the Prohibition Amendment, which led the battle for repeal.</p>
<p>The only relationship between liquor and abortion that I made was stating that professors make an association between Prohibition and efforts to end &#8220;choice.&#8221;  Otherwise, I couldn&#8217;t agree more with that portion of your comment.</p>
<p>I make this defense as no defender of Prohibition; I&#8217;m not.  I&#8217;m just summarizing Schweikart&#8217;s very interesting and important book.</p>
<p> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Francis W. Porretto</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1807</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis W. Porretto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1807</guid>
		<description>Your notions about Prohibition are off base.Among other things, Prohibition was the engine that fueled the rise of the organized criminal underworld, which grew very rich on it. For another thing, criminal gangs had not previously had the wherewithal to corrupt any large fraction of American law enforcers; Prohibition made that possible both morally and financially. For a third thing, thousands of people started drinking &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; of Prohibition -- it made that a mildly rebellious pastime, adding the thrill of safe lawbreaking to the pleasure of imbibing.Why on Earth do you think the Eighteenth Amendment was repealed? And why do you think the most vocal and determined forces &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; its repeal were the gangland lords who profited from it?Finally, there is absolutely no relationship between Prohibition, which criminalized an activity that harms no non-consenting person, and abortion, which kills a defenseless child. Such comparisons do great violence to the most important cause of our time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your notions about Prohibition are off base.Among other things, Prohibition was the engine that fueled the rise of the organized criminal underworld, which grew very rich on it. For another thing, criminal gangs had not previously had the wherewithal to corrupt any large fraction of American law enforcers; Prohibition made that possible both morally and financially. For a third thing, thousands of people started drinking &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; of Prohibition &#8212; it made that a mildly rebellious pastime, adding the thrill of safe lawbreaking to the pleasure of imbibing.Why on Earth do you think the Eighteenth Amendment was repealed? And why do you think the most vocal and determined forces &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; its repeal were the gangland lords who profited from it?Finally, there is absolutely no relationship between Prohibition, which criminalized an activity that harms no non-consenting person, and abortion, which kills a defenseless child. Such comparisons do great violence to the most important cause of our time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ais-Isa.org &#187; Blog Archive The Lies They Teach - #16 And #17</title>
		<link>http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/2008/12/01/the-lies-they-teach-16-and-17/comment-page-1/#comment-1805</link>
		<dc:creator>Ais-Isa.org &#187; Blog Archive The Lies They Teach - #16 And #17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cheatseekingmissiles.com/?p=6138#comment-1805</guid>
		<description>[...] more: The Lies They Teach - #16 And #17 Tags: browser, browser-privacy, could-not, fix-this, fix-this-problem-yourself, from-your, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more: The Lies They Teach &#8211; #16 And #17 Tags: browser, browser-privacy, could-not, fix-this, fix-this-problem-yourself, from-your, [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

