Cheat Seeking Missiles

he Saddleback Civil Forum is over. It started with Barack Obama, as John McCain waited behind the stage, unable to hear the questions. “We believe in the separation of church and state, but we don’t believe in the separation of faith and politics,” Warren says, effectively putting that mess to an end. In the end, the sort of concerns raised by Red State had no substance whatsoever, as I expected.

“We need to learn to disagree without demonizing each other, and learn to restore civility.”

I posted the stuff below as Obama concluded each section, then went back and added McCain’s answers immediately following the Obama answer.

Lots of cheering and whistling greet Obama. McCain doesn’t quite get the same moment, because the two came together in the middle of the program, but still got a bit of a rouser.

McCain talked to the audience with a lot of political “my friends” phrasing. Obama talked to Warren - an interesting difference. I think it might have been that the audience was more in sync with him than it was with Obama. Obama got very few applause interruptions during his answer, while McCain was frequently interrupted - I think that sort of switched him into campaign mode.

First question: Who are the three wisest people, who are you going to rely on? Obama: Excluding you, of course … Obama begins. Begins with “wise and honest” wife who can “get up in your face and say boy, you really screwed that up.” Grandmother is grounded and common sense. In terms of the administration, would not restrict to three. Names Sam Nunn, Dick Lugar on foreign policy. On domestic Ted Kennedy to Tom Colburn (not sure of that). Says he wants a lot of points of view - but we haven’t seen this much in his past.

McCain paused longer before answering, then went right to Gen. Petraeus - no Cindy here! Then John Lewis, who still serves optimistically after a skull fracture - courage, commitment. Meg Whitman, the CEO of Ebay, a great American success story who he would call on for economic decisions. Nothing romantic here!

What did he change his mind on? Obama: Welfare reform was his answer - a pretty safe answer since it’s an issue that’s long gone in most people’s perception.

McCain: Off-shore drilling. Got a big applause on this. He drew it to national security right away - $700 billion to countries that don’t like us very much.

McCain, at the outset is showing that he’s coming from core beliefs, not from trying to figure out what he ought to say in this answer or that answer.

McCain: on greatest moral failure (Obama mentioned drinking and drugs). Failure of his first marriage - he looked very sad. For America, he said America has not devoted itself to causes greater than our self interest. After 9/11 should have told Americans not to go shopping, but to join the Peace Corps or Americorps to expand America’s great mission. Serve a cause greater than your self-interest.

What’s the most gut-wrenching decision? Obama: Opposition to war in Iraq - interesting, because we assume this was knee-jerk from a liberal, requiring no thought at all. He, and he alone, seems to question WMDs. He paints himself as extremely perceptive, thinking about Shia-Sunni relations etc. I don’t think this was an honest answer at all.

McCain: Went back to his POW years, and his decision not to leave prison early. but Code of Conduct said you only leave in the order of capture. Said he is more happy about that decision than any other decision he made. He said he prayed a lot.

McCain: different question - leading against your party’s interest, your own best interest, for the good of America. I was not elected Miss Congeniality again this year. He went to climate change, out of control spending, torture - but for the biggest, he went way back as a frosh Rep, was opposed to Reagan’s idea of sending troops to Beirut.

The “‘leadership”‘ questions went by and were not really worth too much - no hard pushing here. McCain is clearly the leader here - he spoke strongly and firmly.

Worldview question number 1: What does your faith and trust in Christ mean to you on a daily basis?

Obama says it’s a source of strength and sustenance, but says it establishes an obligation for the right deeds: Thinking about the least of these, mercy, humility. If this is him, he’s not very different from me.

McCain: It means I’m saved and forgiven. Told a POW story, of when he was in a stress position, when a guard loosened the ropes for him for a while, before coming back and tightening them - he was a Christian. “For a minute there, there were just two Christians worshiping there together.”

Abortion - 40 million since Roe. At what point does a baby get human rights? Obama: He won’t answer the question about when conception begins - “above my pay grade”‘ - what a huge cop out! But it was only a temporary cop out - later, his answer makes it clear that he thinks it doesn’t begin at conception because he puts himself on the other side of the argument. He wants to dodge the specificity of Rick’s question. says he’s not pro-abortion but “‘women do not make these decisions casually.” Rick asked if he ever voted to limit abortions - which he hasn’t - and he answers that pro-lifers will see his record as inadequate. (Obama was wrong in saying that abortions didn’t drop in the U.S. despite the Bush administration’s efforts against abortion - they have dropped.)

McCain: “At the moment of conception.” Right out of the chute. He committed to being a pro-life president with pro-life policies.

Obama defined marriage as man and woman that as a Christian is sacred. He wouldn’t support a Constitutional definition because it’s a state’s rights issue. He sounds very reasonable, but he never put homosexual relationships in terms of “marriage,” which will not make the gay lobby happy. It’ll be interesting to hear what he says at the next GLBA meeting.

McCain: Was very careful to get it just right - one man and one woman. He also is a federalist, so he wants the decisions made at the state level.

Stem cells: Obama - “Nothing inappropriate” as long as cloning is engaged.

McCain: Said it was very tough for him to come down on the side of research because of his pro-life experience. Very straightforward, no waffling.

Does evil exist. If so do we ignore, negotiate, contain or destroy it. Obama says yes. Darfur and on the streets of our cities, in parents who abuse children. His position is “confronting” it. God’s task is erasing it, but we can be soldiers. Went to evil in the name of good - thin ice here, coming very closing to calling America evil if we make the wrong decision. He never mentioned those who are doing evil against us - al Qaeda was not mentioned.

McCain: Defeat it, to wild applause. Then he went directly to bin Laden. He says radical Islamic extremism is the defining challenge of the 21st century - if that isn’t evil, you’ll have to tell me what is. He says the central court of the fight is Iraq, where “we will win.” It’s amazing Obama answered this without mentioning our enemy - to him our enemy is us, not them.

Which existing SCOTUS would you not have nominated? Obama: Clarence Thomas. Did think he was a strong enough legal thinker. He said his decision on John Roberts was tough - but it was a party line vote by him. He thinks SCOTUS should guard against encroachment of executive on the other branches - not Congress? Not activist judges? I wonder how that position will change if he is the executive.

McCain: Ginsberg, Breyer, Souter Stevens. President has incredible responsibility - nominations should be based on a proven record of being a constitutionalist.

Faith-based organizations. Would you insist that faith-based organizations forfeit the right to hire who they want to if they are to receive federal funds? Obama: A lie here - got his start working with churches - true, but not FOR churches … misleading. “Have to be careful to make sure that we are not creating a situation where people are being discriminated against using federal money.” So yes he would forfeit churches that right.

McCain: “‘Absolutely not!” This guy is so direct it’s almost scary. Another question/answer where the differences between the two were profoundly visible.

Should better teachers be paid better? Obama’s answer was very pro-teacher, giving them negotiating power. How do you “reward excellence” as long as the teachers unions are there.

McCain: Cut off the question: Yes, yes, and find bad teachers another line of work. “Choice and competition, choice and competition.” Notes that Obama also chose to send their kids to non-public schools.

Taxes: “Define rich. Give me a number.” Obama: $150,000 or less is middle class is middle class or less. If more than $250,000, then you’re in the top three or four percent and are doing well. He sees government as the source for health, education and not having a mountain of debt. But not a word at all on cutting the costs - except for cutting the war.

McCain: “Some of the richest people I know are the most unhappy.” Defines it as a home, a good job, the ability to hand it on. “I don’t believe in taking money from the rich - I want everyone to get rich.” At the end: “If you’re just talking about income, how about $5 million?” He took it to spending - a place Obama never went anywhere close to at all.

McCain: When do rights to privacy and national security collide? (not asked of Obama) He acknowledges that they do collide, but said we have to keep up with the technological advances. Sees it as an example of failure of Dems and GOP to work together to keep America from attack.

America’s responsibilities to the rest of the world

What’s worth dying for? Obama: American freedom, lives and national interests. Cites NATO, where we pledge to act militarily - so what does he think about Georgia’s entry into NATO.

McCain: “Freedom, our national security, our security as a nation.” I don’t think Obama mentioned national security. “We can’t right every wrong … but we can be a beacon of hope and freedom for everyone in the world.” He called Communism evil.

Troops to stop genocide? Obama says if we have it within our power and we can work in concert with the international community, we should act. That would be Darfur, so what would he do there?

McCain: Our obligation is to stop genocide wherever we are. He said we should explore suppplying logistics, equipment and aide with African forces there to enforce it. “We have to be committed to never saying “never again” again.”

“What about Georgia and Poland?” (McCain only) He said it makes him very sad - 118,000 without homes. Called for the honoring of territorial integrity of Georgia. “Keep them in your prayers … and send a message to the Russians.”‘

148 million orphans in the world need to be in families. Would you consider, commit to, some kind of emergency plan for orphans, like Bush’s plan for AIDs? Obama looked at this ahead of time and thinks it’s a great idea. Great, he’s for orphans!

McCain:We would have to make adoption a lot easier in this country. Cites Teddy Roosevelt - my great role model.”

What should the US do to end religious persecution in China, Iraq and with our allies? Obama says we need to witness about it and not pretend it’s not taking place. Again calls on international forums, which haven’t worked … whose forums? The UN human rights idiocracy? He accused us of habeas corpus violations and torture - he just can’t keep from haranguing us.

McCain: The president’s greatest asset is the bully pulpet. “Our Judeo-Christian principles dictate that we do what we can to help people who need it throughout the world.”

Slavery and sex trafficking. Obama wants it to be a high priority with good prosecutorial tools.

Why do you want to be president? Obama: His mother would get angry at him if he was mean to others, if he didn’t show empathy. That’s America to him - we care for a kid who can’t afford college - that’s his America. In other words, he feels America isn’t empathetic enough, and it needs him. That means paying for more “good” instead of incentivizing good. He ended by calling on us to sacrifice. It is the second term for Jimmy Carter!

McCain: “I want to inspire a generation of Americans to serve a cause greater than their own interests.” He made it clear that America’s best days are still ahead of it - a call for us to work and serve, not to sacrifice - even though his sacrifice was greater than most of us could consider.

This was a huge and clear win for McCain. He came of as sharp and directed and plugged into our concerns, while Obama came off as wishy-washy, smooth and a liberal in centrist clothing. The Obama team has some work to do before the debates come up.

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